On Mon, 2023-08-07 at 19:05 +0200, Dashamir Hoxha wrote:
New thread :)
On Mon, 2023-08-07 at 10:14 +0200, Dashamir Hoxha wrote:
With software, the EU is on a loser's trail. With a ratio of, probably, 99% lawyers and political scientists and 1% engineers working at the EU commission (*) the result cannot be different.
To be fair to the EU, they actually do invest in projects and consortia, which are expected to get the technical job done. How much and is it enough? I'm not sure.
This podcast for example gives a glimpse of the work that is going on in the field of digital identity:
The digital wallet is a major joke. A solution for a non-existant problem. I know that my statements are strong, so I'll put some meat on the bones.
Take first a look at this:
This is false advertising. Everything they claim to do with the DW can be done without it.
Dear Gianguido!
With all due respect, I disagree with you about the DW.
Thanks for the link above. I find it a bit surprising that the EU had such a clear vision 4-5 years ago (when that strategy was compiled).
The digital wallet would not change anything.
Even worse is the example in the drawing. A smiling youngster who, thanks to his smartphone, gets a bank loan.
The essential point in getting bank loans is to be clean and creditworthy. Have a job, possibly a house, and so on. Otherwise you forget about the loan. The most important step is the verification by credit assessment companies, in Italy CRIF, in Germany Schufa and so on. If they disagree, again, no loan will ever be granted.
A digital wallet alone is not sufficient.
The digital wallet is a way for the EU Commission to make believe that they are serious about digital matters, when they are not.
I agree that at first sight that page/document may seem like a propaganda, with promises that are too good to be true, but it is actually based on real concepts, technology, standards, tools etc. that are being actively developed worldwide. The key concept is Decentralized Identity (or Self-Sovereign Identity). Then there are Verifiable Credentials (which are a W3C standard), and many other standards and technologies that are combined together. A digital wallet is an important piece of this picture, maybe the most important one, since it is the interface between the users and the rest of the system.
It is difficult for me to explain SSI in a short message. I can't also say "trust me that it is a serious thing", because who am I that you should take my word for it. But there are serious organizations working on it right now, for example ToIP (Trust over IP):
https://trustoverip.org/toip-model/
Back to the wonderful digital wallet, I use PDF scans of my documents and that's it. If necessary, I can sign them digitally with my ID card. The newest documents, from the national population register, are already digital and signed. Nothing more is required. No digital wallet, for sure.
In fact, as a EU citizen I would support an immediate stop to this way of throwing away public money. First, they should make eIDAS work, then we can see further.
My understanding is that eIDAS 2.0 (including the digital wallet) is an improvement over eIDAS 1.0, which is intended to make it more interoperable and easier to use.
Will they be able to make the DW work by the end of 2024? Maybe not, but it seems like they are working in the right direction.
By the way, this is an innovative work and they (the EU) are directly on a competition race with Apple (and maybe other big companies) that are trying to develop such digital wallets.
I don't want to inflict any pains on you, but to my limited knowledge, Russia is far behind in this race :)
Dashamir
Dear Dashamir!
Thank you for your reply. Don't worry, I believe everything that you write.
My point is a different one.
What is all this matter for? What practical problems shall the DW solve, that cannot be solved otherwise today? Is the cost ever repaid?
Most of the talk on the DW is concentrated on the technology, not on practical applications. And most of all, not on the changes in administration, organisation, IT outside the wallet but that are necessary for the wallet to work.
After ca. 45 professional years, most of which also in IT, my conclusion is simple. Simple ideas and concepts work, complicated ones don't.
Simple ideas do not even need to be implemented with IT.
The standard machine-readable passport format is a huge improvement over the previous ones. Nobody made much noise about it, just one concept, one standard and it works worldwide. The EU was NOT involved in its design.
On the contrary, the EU left free hands in the definition of national eID documents, so that they are not mutually compatible. I have three IDs (Italy, Germany, Estonia) with three readers, three software, three procedures... Europe at its best!
The IBAN banking code is a EU standard. It works because it's simple, everybody understands it. The worst thing that can happen with it is to write an IBAN code manually in a form. But most of the time it's done automatically with copy and paste. A smartphone would actually make life more complicated, if one works on a desktop.
Concerning Russia, you are not inflicting any pain with your comment. They are behind in this race, and it's good so. They have a digital administration system working much better than Italy's, and much much better than Germany's. They don't need to change it. It began in 2010. Russia doesn't even have eID because you can login online with user/password or with help of an app. They kept it simple. Banking access and Government ID are mutually compatible. Russia has also its internal credit card payment system, which the EU doesn't have.
Finally, for all things that are part of normal life for an European/ Italian such as, in my case, taxation, social security, health and so on there is some support online, but most stuff is still done on paper or PDF documents. A DW does not help the fact that the number of doctors is decreasing and it is more and more difficult to go for a visit. In the partially automated online health documentation service all my documents are called "report". They didn't even put in the doc name, is it the last blood test or the eyesight control? As long as idiots are in charge of such procedures and do not figure out down-to-earth application details no DW will ever help improve the service.
My conclusion is simple. The DW is the new trend, everybody is jumping on the wagon. Who cares about its practical utility?
Gianguido
P.S. I'd like to make another example about the absurdity of the New Digital Europe. 40 years ago there was Interrail. A small booklet with the owner's name on it, written by pen. With it during one month you could just board any train anywhere in Europe, without limits. Some yougsters traveled all the way from Morocco to Finland over Irland and Hungary, others concentrated on one or two countries. It doesn't matter, it worked.
With the first privatizations of rail service Interrail was dropped.
Now it has been reintroduced again. It's an app where you must choose some days within a certain period, some countries but not others, some trains but not others. The concept has become much more complicated and the sense of freedom is gone. No app, no boarding on the train.
Most likely, the energy expenditure for running the apps, the servers, the comlinks etc. is also higher than for the production of a small booklet of low-quality, recycled paper.
Please, give me the old booklet back!!!